Tuesday was a bad day for London Bay. 6 requests were voted on Tuesday, 5 were overwhelmingly denied. LPA members objected to the height of the buildings, the Floor Area Ratio (F.A.R.), and the scope of the entire project London Bay presented.
The final vote denying London Bay’s request for a text amendment to the Land Development Code to create a new Outrigger district was 5-2 with Jim Dunlap and Ed Schoonover voting in favor.
The next step in the process is for London Bay to go to the Town Council, which they repeatedly indicated they plan to do. They can pitch the council their original plan or modify it before their presentation. They go to the Town Council with an LPA denial and staff recommending denial. With the Seagate provoked recall, a community outcry to stick to the Comprehensive Plan and Land Development Code, and an upcoming election for 3 council seats, London Bay has an uphill climb to get this project approved as presented. It’s clear that Lond Bay CEO Mark Wilson’s claim that Fort Myers Beach needs large scale devlopment like his has not gained much traction with decision-makers so far.
Before the LPA began whipping out their rejection votes on the project, London Bay CEO Mark Wilson withdrew all of his proposed changes to the height of the condo building. His latest modifications took one floor off the condo building while adding an additional floor to the three other buildings. Wilson may believe he’ll have better luck getting 3 council votes on the proposal he originally presented. The Town Council will get two cracks at it in June. Two additional meetings were scheduled for June in anticipation of hearing and voting on this project.
The public comment on Tuesday was almost entirely in opposition. Wilson told LPA members he had over 70 e-mails from residents that were in favor and he even read several of them. There is more support for this project than there was for the Seagate/Red Coconut proposal.
In addition to lopping off one floor from the condo building and adding one floor to each of his three other buildings, Wilson also presented this picture below, which he said he could build by right. In this proposal, which nobody in the room seemed to believe Wilson would ever build, 40% of the units were for affordable housing and the total F.A.R. was 3.75. Wilson told the LPA this is what he would be allowed to build under the state’s Live Local Act.
The Live Local Act, enacted in 2023 and updated in 2024 and 2025, is a sweeping Florida law designed to increase affordable housing by providing tax exemptions, incentives, and preemption of local zoning regulations. It allows multifamily/mixed-use projects in commercial/industrial zones if 40% of units are affordable for 30 years.
When Wilson could see the denial writing on the wall, he said he had $1.3 million invested in design adding, “We worked for over 2 years on this. We took all the input and all these people opposed will not have any say in what we do.” Wilson was referring to the if London Bay chose to build based on the Live Local Act.
The project is far from dead. The LPA only makes recommendations to the Town Council and as we’ve reported, at times, those recommendations are rejected. If London Bay gets 3 of the 5 Town Council members to vote yes, the project is approved. LPA Chair Anita Cereceda said to Wilson at the end of the meeting, “I hope this encourages London Bay to come up with something the Town Council can approve.”
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Let them build!!!!!
Good.
If Wilson acts like a child because he didn’t get his way, and decides to build the “Live Local” rendering, he may as well stop building in SWFL. No other town around will want him building in their town. Even if he buys land in other places, those towns may deny any of his projects, thus forcing him to build “live local” for the rest of his company’s existence. Hope he thinks twice before taking his ball and running home!
Respectfully, it would appear from what you wrote that your not aware of the Related Group which for close to 50 years has been very successful at both high-end luxury, high-rise condominiums (e.g., Icon South Beach, Murano Grande) while also maintaining a strong, long-standing presence in government-subsidized, public-private partnership, affordable, and workforce housing in South Florida.
In other words, history directly contradicts the logic of your argument.
Jim, you sure do have a crush on these guys. Every one of your posts is all about how smart and successful they are, and how the residents are just so dumb and unsuccessful. Is “Jim” actually “Wilson”? And just because you start your posts with “Respectfully”, or “With all due respect”, that doesn’t give you the licence to imply that we are all idiots.
Regardless of “how successful” London Bay has been in the past, one of two things happened in THIS situation. Either they were told that they could ignore the islands LDC and whatever they wanted would be passed, OR they did not first look to see what could be built under the LDC and realize that the price they were paying was way too high for what they could build.
Either way, unless they got the first case in writing, what they did HERE was not smart at all.
One last thing….They have to be able to sell whatever it is they are building. One of the reasons the Seagate property went back on the market was that their garbage just wasn’t selling.
Two different companies. One is huge and known for luxury and affordable, the other is smaller in comparison, and only known for luxury. Would you want to take a chance on changing the trajectory of your company due to a silly grudge? I sure would not.
I have no more of an idea what Wilson will do than you do. My point was simply that the notion that a developer can’t successfully build both luxury projects and workforce housing in our neck of the woods is untrue. Typically, when a developer from the luxury market decides to also start developing government-subsidized, affordable, or workforce housing, they first incorporate a new business and conduct those types of projects exclusively under that company’s name. This prevents the new venture from affecting the brand of the original company and yes, this playbook has been executed successfully many times.
I personally would really hate it if Wilson decides to go the “Live Local” route on this project, though I know numerous young people who desperately hope that he does and, in fact, hope it would start a pattern for the area, but that’s a different discussion. The route that he or any other developer takes has nothing to do with spite, as some have suggested, and everything to do with what they believe to be the most economically advantageous direction to take. My concern is that we are creating a scenario where the most economically advantageous direction will be the “Live Local” route. It most certainly would be the route I would take if I found myself in that situation. All the arguments that I have read on this site as to why this would not happen simply illustrate that the people making them are completely ignorant of the actual economic realities of developing a project such as this.
I wish people would stop thinking we don’t understand these types of developments just because we’re against the LB project. We’re against it because the Town was created to LIMIT these types of developments. Develop to your hearts content, as long it’s to the Comp Plan and LDC. No one disputes the economic realities, there are positives, but way more negatives. The main economic reality is that LB overpaid and doesn’t want to wait as long for an ROI if they have to build to code.
” Typically, when a developer from the luxury market decides to also start developing government-subsidized, affordable, or workforce housing, they first incorporate a new business and conduct those types of projects exclusively under that company’s name. This prevents the new venture from affecting the brand of the original company and yes, this playbook has been executed successfully many times.”
Jim, read this silly garbage you just wrote again.
You’re going to have high end luxury condos, not 50 yards away from section 8 housing, On. The. Same. Property. Gonna be a little bit hard to “execute that playbook successfully”. Not only will the Section 8 be linked to London Bay, but show me someone who is willing to drop $5 million on a condo that is steps away from Section 8 housing.
It won’t sell.
My original thoughts as to when FMB would see any substantive development was 5 years (2027). I’m now thinking that it will be 10 years so I’m now anticipating that we’ll have to wait until 2032. Anyone care to wager?
Unfortunately, at the rate things are going, it may be longer than a decade before any significant development is completed, meaning many of us will not be alive to see it. That is, unless developers start thinking they can profitably take the “Live Local” route, which would be an even worse fate for us.
I’m not a geologist, but it looks to me that the design he’s threatening us with now, is going to be a tornado maker for strong storms coming off the gulf and passing through that gap in those towers.
This is turning into a pissing match, I think someone from the LPA should be involved with every step of the design process instead of London Bay wasting money on designs they think their lawyers will eventually push through.
They knew damn well what they were buying.
Mark Wilson’s threat using Affordable Housing – is just that.
He isn’t listening to the people – because he can’t –
he overpaid “assuming” …
What he CAN build, won’t work. of course he’s ANNOYED, but with who ?
I see no mention of impact on Estero Blvd traffic, which i speculate could be substantial. I also wonder about infrastructure impacts. Such as Sewer and ww
Ater
The reality is FMB will never be the same as it was before hurrican Ian. People want it to stay this low key beachy community with little cottages and bungalows. The reality is FEMA and the building codes won’t allow that.
So now we continue to look at empty lots with broken down fences around them. And hurricane damage buildings.
It has nothing to do with building codes..It called playing by the rules!
With all due respect, the economic realities are such that it is impossible to build to code and the “rules,” as you referred to them, and not lose money. That is the indisputable reality, and to claim otherwise is simply to publicly demonstrate that one can be passionately opinionated on a topic in which they are not well educated. In other words, the true effect of our self-imposed “rules” is that we get ZERO significant improvement from our current state.
I wish everyone a very long and healthy life, but the statistical reality is that because of the advanced median age of FMB residents, a notable percentage of current residents will not be around a decade from now. For them (who, though we care not to admit it, will include many of us who are posting messages on this site), the beach will not significantly improve from its current state unless we Super NIMBYs improve our ways.
The funds from the one-time grant reimbursements are quickly getting spent, and Fort Myers Beach remains on its steady path towards future persistent and long-term financial shortfalls. Maybe the plan for some of us is to not live long enough to have to seriously deal with this reality and to leave the burden to the younger ones.
“With all due respect, the economic realities are such that it is impossible to build to code and the “rules,” as you referred to them, and not lose money.”
Yes there is. Don’t overpay to begin with! You know, the whole “Due Diligence” thing……..
I have never met Wilson (though I do know quite a number of business owners who have worked on the development of his projects), but I believe it’s a safe bet that he didn’t become as financially successful as a developer, for as long as he has done this, by being bad at what he does. Respectfully, your comment makes it crystal clear to those of us who know that you are not a developer and have no clue about the business. Of course, you don’t need to be knowledgeable in a subject to hold opinions on it, but I find that being so helps in having smarter ones.
Apparently, Wilson would much rather build for a luxury clientele than build workforce housing, as he is legally entitled to. But here is the critical question: do you really think that if he is left with only the options of losing money by selling the land for less than he bought it for, or building something that would include workforce housing and make a substantial profit, he would take the loss? If you actually think he won’t go with making the most money, well, that is why he is a successful developer and you are not.
Well said! They were sickened into believing they could over pay cause council would approve anything. And they did until the recall. They should have planned their finances based on what they could build adhering to the comp plan. This could be a Harvard business review blunder.
Jim, your comment is flawed. Perfect example of following the comp plan and making money….Margaritaville. Sanibel is another example. And…the island is financially stable. Getting better everyday as most condo complexes are back or nearly back online, and homes are being rebuilt all over. You definitely should do some homework to educate yourself. And a little information about this island, it’s not a place for massive development like Marco, Miami, or Fort Lauderdale. This island is about responsible development. I learned that when I did my homework! That’s why I love it here so much.
Bahama Beach Club is in the process of being built that has 11 duplexes. It IS the beachy feel we all want and are getting it. Check out 5370 Estero and see for yourself.
You do realize you’re compering apples to zebras right? The Bahama Beach Club is a rebuild project on tiny lots that are directly beside houses. In no way is it comparable to the lot size nor location and surroundings of the London Bay project.
Did you read the article before this one?
The council is now on the clock.
Have they finally begun listening?
Do they understand shell games, now you see it now you don’t?
Are they bully-proof?
Do they know a corporate predator when they’re confronted by one?
Are they capable of just saying no?
Their residents certainly are.
Stay tuned.
Nov. 3rd. The clock is running for a majority at risk.
So tired of the town and all of the old residents that are always in the way of progress. They rather see empty lots, pilings, and fences rather than beautiful buildings with more restaurants, bars, shops, that will bring more revenue and jobs for the area.
Actually they only want builders to follow the rules. I’m so tired of people who just think they can design whatever they want and expect the town to just roll over and allow anything to just get the empty lots filled. Follow the rules guys!!
Nicely said, Marie. Margaritaville did it, so can London Bay. London Bay could have started construction by now if they would have designed to code.
With all due respect, the economic realities are such that it is impossible to build to code and the “rules,” as you referred to them, and not lose money. That is the indisputable reality, and to claim otherwise is simply to publicly demonstrate that one can be passionately opinionated on a topic in which they are not well educated. In other words, the true effect of our self-imposed “rules” is that we get ZERO significant improvement from our current state.
Tell that to Margaritaville! It’s called responsible development.
Sanibel and Anna Maria Island seem to do just fine.
With the way you speak i know for a fact you dont live here nor are you actually “experienced”, genuinely believe youre using chatgpt generated answers with how all of your replies have been.
That’s pretty racist against “ old” people. You do realize you live in Florida right? Maybe the old people are wise with their experience.
But….but, William apparently prefers a continuous parade of concrete trucks, traffic, noise, garbage, density. height, runoff, years of large scale construction………….
I disagree completely! What about moderation? This is not about holding back the island! This is wanting SOME condos and SOME hotel rooms and a RESTAURANT and a beachy tiki (if that’s possible) and having it accessible to all. The Outrigger was a 4 story hotel next to RESIDENTIAL HOMES…a neighborhood. We lived next door for over 40 years… we loved the music, the restaurant, the atmosphere. London Bay wants to increase everything (height, density) and it is just TOO MUCH. We are aware things change and we love FMB and we support development. Development should NOT mean taking the most you can from a piece of property, KNOWING the negative impact it will have and then moving on to the next best thing… look at Gulfside 12… nice looking, built within limits, positive for the South End! Being reasonable is the key.
Maybe this island just isn’t for you.
You do recognize that comments such as this, along with the underlying way of thinking from which it comes from, is why there is so much festering resentment among the young for those of us, of a more advanced age? The young want the same things we did but they are seeing that it has been made impossible for them to achieve.
The comment “…all these people opposed will not have any say in what we do.” indicates that London Bay doesn’t really care about FMB and the people who live there. Why can’t developers stick to the Comprehensive Plan? Make FMB a beautiful place to live instead of massive concrete monstrosities.
I agree that this process is flawed. The developers should be meeting with the councils and discuss what will and will not work before wasting more time on the actual voting. Hoping isn’t a great business plan.
Maybe they should play by the rules…what do you all think?
Personally, I would much rather look at an empty lot and the ocean than a massive project that doesn’t conform to our height and density laws. Pretty sure the tax revenue on vacant land is substantial without taking the hit on the infrastructure. Just conform to the laws in place and build accordingly Not our problem you overpaid for the land in hopes that you could get away with breaking all the rules.
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I just want a bar/restaurant walkable from my house 6 blocks away. Sooner then later would be great.
A bar that is 800 square feet and may not even be built because of the CCCL. The DEP has the ultimate decision on this not the builder.
even better was the “horseshoe” rendering of what he could build back by right, with a four or five story concrete wall , not far from the sidewalk running the length of the property.London Bay, knowing the rules, bought the property and thought that they could change them with impunity
“I hope this encourages London Bay to come up with something the Town Council can approve.”
Why don’t you meet him halfway and establish exactly what you will approve? Such an incredible waste of time, and now we get to stare at a weedy lot for even longer.
Such a shame.
Mark Wilson approached his wants all wrong. Threatening to build affordable units when he doesn’t get his luxury units. Wow. Sounds like a spoiled developer. Keep it vacant, we can see the ocean from Estero. He will keep paying property taxes on the price he paid for the land. I believe he thought the “dumb islanders” would believe his presentation lies and let him do what he wants without regards to the impact of his buildings on the residents. How many of the residents supporting his build are from manufactured letters he provided to the condo owners from his first build on fort myers beach? I am sure he left that fact out. Those residents will be able to enjoy the outrigger private beach access. Even boat over to where Charlie’s was. Devious and deceptive is what I would label LB’s project plan.
I agree with you 100%. Well said. He, Mark Wilson, seems to think that because we prefer a low-key life style where we all wear shorts and flip-flops that we are uneducated fools. He is beginning to realize that we are not! A lot of us are highly educated in all kinds of disciplines. And I want to thank those that have spoken out at the meetings with facts and statistics that have come from their expertise in various fields such as engineering and economics. Your participation in this struggle to keep dense high-rises off this property is very much appreciated. Thank you, a neighbor to the property.
Yes!
This was the straw that broke the camels back. If they made multiple proposals and none got a positive node. London bay will pull back and the big heads at “ “LPA “and” Town council “ sham should eat the property tax increases because we know in Nov we will be getting those letters soon!
This town better s*** or get off the pot and figure out what they want and island full of sticks and weeds and crap laying around or something to be proud of and London Bay could do that wake up people and look around
Wow, thanks for the well wishes for our community.
Progress. I hope all these big money developers pull out and just sit on these properties. Then the crybabies can look at fenced in lots for decades and watch their property taxes rise to make up for the money that the resorts won’t be bringing in.
This crybaby LOVES looking at that fenced/weeded lot. I can still see the gulf which is much more beautiful than a concrete jungle. As for taxes, do your research before calling people names. London Bay, Seagate and every resident on this island is paying double, triple maybe even quadruple in taxes since Hurricane Ian. London Bay and Seagate are paying taxes on those vacant lots, which is fine with me. If the Town can’t manage their budget with the taxes they’re getting, they need to look in the mirror. All we want is for developers to build to code. Since the Town was created for that reason, it’s really not too much to ask for.
Maybe your dream will come true and you will once again have a trailer park and buy biscuits from a shed on the side of the road. Beautiful!!